J H Williams III
Q & A's

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Posted on the Wildstorm Message Boards between 28 June and 11 September 2002

Previous Q&A's : 5 March - 27 June
Next Q&A's : 22 Septmber 2002 - 19 March 2003

Coolness! Thanks, guys.
AldoAlvarez
New Member posted June 28, 2002 02:31 PM
That was the only thing in that issue of Prommie that struck a wrong note with me.
Crowley was most definitely a power bottom.
------------------
Aldo Alvarez
author of INTERESTING MONSTERS : Fictions (Graywolf Press)
homepage:
http://www.blithe.com/aa/" target=_blank
http://www.blithe.com/aa/
JDC Member posted June 28, 2002 06:11 PM
J.H., is Imaginary Lines dead? It hasn't appeared in several issues.
Nightwing
Member posted June 30, 2002 07:33 PM
Hi J.H.,
if you have seen it, what did you think of Alex Ross' version of the Mooriverse?
------------------ The original Nightwing: been here since day #1 of the boards and have been robbed of all my posts! quote:
My review of 2001- the year, is the same as 2001 A SPACE ODYSSEY- It went on too long, it was hard to follow, and you could've only enjoyed it if you were really REALLY REALLY stoned
Minnelli said she chose the wedding party when she was drunk one night, and started throwing darts at THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER
- Lewis Black

JHW3!
Member posted July 01, 2002 11:35 PM
hey there jdc
it is starting to look that way. they keep telling me that they are not receiving enough letters. i don't know how true that is because i'm not there. but i have noticed a lot of other titles have been lacking in the letters pages as well. it looks to me that they are selling them for add space. also it could be that people just are getting too busy to write letters anymore. i wish they would at least print some of the more interesting stuff that gets posted here for those readers out there that don't frequent this space. that way they can see that others are still excited over this series.
-------- rise and reverberate
JHW3!
Member posted July 01, 2002 11:38 PM
hey there nightwing
yes i have seen that illustration and its brilliant of course. alex ross has always known how to make things look great.
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rise and reverberate
Donster without the The
Member posted July 02, 2002 09:27 AM
Yo, JHW3, just thought you'd like to know that Alan Davis's Killraven project is a go as a 6 issue limited series that will start coming out in October. Check out...
http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=13&t=001238
Nightwing
Member posted July 04, 2002 12:24 AM
Hi J.H., just wondering whatever happened to your web-site(not yours and Mick's)?
Happy July 4th!
Alex
------------------
The original Nightwing: been here since day #1 of the boards and have been robbed of all my posts! quote:
My review of 2001- the year, is the same as 2001 A SPACE ODYSSEY- It went on too long, it was hard to follow, and you could've only enjoyed it if you were really REALLY REALLY stoned
Minnelli said she chose the wedding party when she was drunk one night, and started throwing darts at THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER
- Lewis Black
vorlon
Member posted July 04, 2002 12:16 PM
I just finished Promethea #21 for the first time (I am going to be rereading that one a few times...). How did you choose the art style for Binah? The rough-hewn style is very appropos to the subjecr. Very primal.
If you had used brighter colors, it would have looked like stained-glass. Highly inappropriate to the subject, I know, it's just the visual similarity somehow seems of note.
vorlon
Member posted July 05, 2002 11:27 AM
Heh.
Readng other topics, I find I have completely revealed my lask of art sophistication.
JHW3!
Member posted July 06, 2002 07:18 PM
hey there vorlon
actually most of the art for our road movie has been chosen instinctually. we are really doing this by our gut and have realised that is the best way to approach this material. we feel our instincts have yet to be wrong. after reading the issue myself in its published form i agree at how well it works for the atmospere and the subject of this sphere. i'm surprised by this everytime a new issue comes out because it just all falls into place. it is truly magic. the murky colors were specific to binah as specified in my copy of 777. --------
rise and reverberate
JDC

Member posted July 08, 2002 12:17 AM
If possible, could you elaborate on Promethea's ownership? According to the indicia, Promethea is trademarked and copyrighted to America's Best Comics, LLC.
Does that mean Jim Lee owns Promethea? Or DC? You and Alan? Is the book work-for-hire or creator owned? Could the book (or the whole imprint) be taken to another publisher?
JDC
Member posted July 08, 2002 12:39 AM
Also, what's up with this? http://www.thecliffguy.com/williams3.jpg
From here.
JHW3! Member posted July 08, 2002 10:47 PM
hey there nightwing
consider that website no longer valid. for now any news will come out of the JHNMICK site. sometime in the near future i will have a new website. i plan on it having all kinds of cool stuff.
-----------------
rise and reverberate

JHW3! Member posted July 08, 2002 10:53 PM
hey there jdc
the series of promethea is jointly owned by alan and me and the main company. it is one of those situations where we have over all control over the material and would have consulting positions if other creators were to come aboard. alan and i also get a piece of the merchandising and any film or television options as well.
<> -------------
rise and reverberate
JHW3!
Member posted July 08, 2002 11:00 PM
hello again jdc
that "cliff" drawing of promethea on that website was piece i did for the owner of that site. i did that back when i still had time for extra stuff that i could squeeze in for fans.
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rise and reverberate
dswynne
Member posted July 08, 2002 11:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by JHW3!:
hey there jdc
the series of promethea is jointly owned by alan and me and the main company. it is one of those situations where we have over all control over the material and would have consulting positions if other creators were to come aboard. alan and i also get a piece of the merchandising and any film or television options as well.
-------------
rise and reverberate
So, who could paly the principal roles in "Promethea"?
I'll start.
Natalie Portman as Sophie.
JHW3!
Member posted July 08, 2002 11:02 PM
hey everyone check out the info i posted elsewhere about the promethea collections.
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rise and reverberate
vorlon
Member posted July 09, 2002 11:53 AM
Ms. Portman might be a touch expensive, but I agree good choice.
We also have an actress (well model at the very least) who looks like Sophie. I'd have to dig out my back-issues to get her name.
Why not her?
JHW3!
Member posted July 12, 2002 10:56 PM
hello dswynne
i agree that natalie portman would be great as sophie. i think the actress that played enid in ghostworld would make a great stacia. as for promethea herself i couldn't even guess at the moment. there is this talented actress on general hospital that plays a character named Gia that looks kind of like promethea but she would have to get some more muscle on her physique to play promethea. but other than that she would look great.
--------
rise and reverberate
Diomedes
New Member posted July 17, 2002 05:44 PM
No real question for you, Mr. Williams, but a few comments.
You, Mick Gray, and Jeremy Cox are the best in the scene today, hands down. Especially appreciated are the attemts to vary the artistic style per issue. I love it. Your page layouts are great too- I give it the ol' squint test- hold the page at arms length, squint, and if what you see is pleasing, well, that's good layout. And you got it.
But one dissenting vote- please, don't ever let Promethea become some lame Hollywood travesty- they'll give the main role to someone like Jennifer Aniston- as beautiful as she is, and she is, she's no Promethea. They'll make the Painted Doll (played by maybe Keannu Reeves) into a 'he-did-it-all-for-love' misunderstood monster rather than the chilling homicidal sociopath he is, and drop all references to magic, the occult, the other prometheas....
Please- no.
But as for you- keep up the superior work.
P.S. I've 'turned on' a few women to comics via Promethea. That says a lot.
Inq
New Member posted July 18, 2002 05:50 PM
hey, jhw3...nice initials..i think they're special.....becuase it's in no way unique.
oh, yeah my question, (i swear i was coming to that) i'm sure you have a tablet for your computer, what kind do you use?
and umm...chewy monkey head! yeah!
JHW3!
Member posted July 19, 2002 11:21 PM
hello diomedes
thank you very much for the very kind comments about our work. we absolutely try our very best every issue.
a promethea movie interests me in 2 ways. seeing the basics of our ideas on the screen reaching a new audience that might actually get a few of them into the comic shops to pick up collections of the real stuff. and a little cash to help out my bank account wouldn't bother me either.
we really don't have much control over the material if it was to become a movie. so we would just have to hope for the best. personally i wouldn't expect it to be like the book and would consider it an entity unto itself.
anyway thanks again for the very nice comments. we appreciate your appreciation.
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rise and reverberate
JHW3!
Member posted July 19, 2002 11:26 PM
hello inq
actually i don't use a tablet for my computer but plan on getting one in the near future because i wish to start incorporating some different techniques into what i already do.
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rise and reverberate
hermes
Member posted July 19, 2002 11:46 PM
Is there any chance of Weeping Gorilla t-shirts becoming manifest in the material world? I'd buy one.
Hey Jimbo, this is Scott Kessler. Just thought I'd say "Hey!" and let you know I'll be at SD Con. Hope to see you there.
JHW3!
Member posted July 23, 2002 01:13 AM
hey there hermes
i will put in your request for just such a t-shirt and we'll see what happens.
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rise and reverberate
JHW3!
Member posted July 23, 2002 01:16 AM
hey there scott (the family man)
wow. long time no hear. yeah wendy and i will be at the show. we'll be in artist alley so come by and say hello. maybe we can a catch a brew or two in the evening. ------------
rise and reverberate
Promethea
New Member posted July 26, 2002 02:07 AM
JH--keep up the breathtakingly excellent work. You, sir, are a master
------------------ I bring you fire!
JHW3!
Member posted July 26, 2002 10:51 PM
hello there promethea
i will continue my best to do you justice in my meager abilities.
--------- rise and reverberate Promethea
New Member posted July 27, 2002 08:49 PM
Just make sure my hair looks good
------------------ I bring you...FIRE!
Stately Wayne Manor
Member posted August 09, 2002 09:13 AM
Hey, JHW...here's a question that was posted on its own thread, from one Jenny Constantine:
>>>Hello, first post here though "Promethea" is a book I've come to love and treasure very dearly. Thing is, I've come across an unsettling bit of news on the Alan Moore mailing list and thought to bring it here so J.H.Williams could confirm or deny it. This is what a poster there said:
"At San Diego I had the chance to speak with J.H. Williams III and to look through a stack of his stunning originals from the series. He told me that Promethea only has a few more issues to run before its conclusion. He said that it may be possible for other Promethea stories to be written, but not stories that use this Promethea (sounds ominous). He also believed that Alan was wrapping up his ABC work so that he could concentrate on smaller, less mainstream projects. He wasn't sure if some of the titles would continue with other writers or not."
Mr. Williams, care to confirm?
Saludos desde España
Jenny C.<<<
Don't know if you check out threads that aren't addressed specifically to you, so I thought that I would reproduce it here...any comments?
------------------ you want links...I've got links:
www.scarygoround.com
www.beecomix.com
www.http://tourniquet.rydia.net/art.html VERA BROSGOL-remember that name-she's good!
http://www.mindspring.com/~johannadc/comics/jackstaff.html Best comic I've read lately-JACK STAFF!
www.dieselsweeties.com
She had Seven Seconds to save the world! Check out my Unofficial Thriller Web Site at
http://homepage.mac.com/trinity_building/index.html
JHW3!
Member posted August 09, 2002 10:13 PM
hey there stately
rest assured that we have more than just few more issues worth of material to go yet. as far as alan's plans for the near future, i would rather let him state exactly what those are publicly. i feel i may have mentioned things in my head in an unclear manner to jenny c. therefore accidentally misleading her in alan's true intentions. so what i am saying is that nothing is gospel until we hear it from the man himself publicly.
------------- rise and reverberate
Jenny Constantine
New Member posted August 10, 2002 02:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by JHW3!:
hey there stately
rest assured that we have more than just few more issues worth of material to go yet. as far as alan's plans for the near future, i would rather let him state exactly what those are publicly. i feel i may have mentioned things in my head in an unclear manner to jenny c. therefore accidentally misleading her in alan's true intentions.
Hey J.H. you can't imagine how happy you've just made me. All good stories have to end sometimes of course, but "Promethea" feels like there's still *so* much to tell that what that person in the mailing list said came completely out of left field. This book is one I wait every issue of with the same thrill I waited each new issue of "The Invisibles", "Starman" or "Preacher".
Do keep up the magnificent work you're doing. I've just saw the preview pages of #22 and they are great! Sophie's and Barbara's blissful contentment contrast so sharply with the tension down here on Earth/Malkuth... I can't help but be very afraid for Stacia even if I don't know exactly very well why. Mr. Moore and you show us every time that magic really exists... the magic of creation.
Greetings from Spain and besos para todos
Jenny C.
vorlon
Member posted August 10, 2002 01:11 PM
What she said.
JHW3!
Member posted August 11, 2002 09:27 PM
hey there jenny
thank you very much for the kind words. we appreciate it.
----------- rise and reverberate
Eroom Nala
Member posted August 12, 2002 12:09 AM
Why didn't you thank Peter Blake for the inspiration for cover #10?
------------------ "Our life is the creation of our mind" - Dhamappada
Eroom Nala
Member posted August 12, 2002 01:12 AM
Was Baron Munchausen as portrayed in Moon River based on John Neville in Terry Gilliam's movie version?
------------------
"Our life is the creation of our mind" - Dhamappada
Eroom Nala
Member posted August 12, 2002 01:49 AM
Hair color changes
Is there any reason why Stacia's hair color changed from red to green between issues #11 and #13. I don't think it's ever been explained or referred to.
3 questions in a row. Hope I'm not hogging this question panel too much
JHW3!
Member posted August 12, 2002 11:40 PM
hey there eroom nala
i'm not sure why we didn't thank peter blake for that cover to be honest. we spaced it.
yes he was based terry gilliam's film version but we had to actually go back and change his likeness from the actor due to legal reasons. originally i had drawn him to look like the actor but we couldn't keep it that way.
stacia is one of those crazy kinda gals who likes to change her hair frequently. she's that way because it suits her. so i just decided one day to make her hair green. in issue 22 it's going to change again. why? because she's fun!!!
---------- rise and reverberate
Tupelo Bound
Member posted August 13, 2002 12:58 AM
quote:
Originally posted by JHW3!:
because she's fun!!!
Yeah she is!
Cheers...
------------------ "Don't you know there ain't no Devil,
there's just God when He's drunk..."
—Tom Waits
Eroom Nala
Member posted August 13, 2002 01:30 AM
Another question about cover #10.
Do you have a list of the background characters that appear?
It's so bright that it's hard to make out the faces but I think I can see Ghandi, Mata Hari, someone looking like a young Elvis Presley and also a young Crowley. Some of the others look vaguely familiar but I can't make them out properly.
JHW3!
Member posted August 13, 2002 11:50 PM
hey there eroom nala
yes. somewhere i have a copy of the original so could tell you everyone but i'm not sure where it is at the moment. but here are a few that i can remember off of the top of my head....
mata hari
billie holiday
william blake
andrew eldritch
bettie page
crowley
david bowie
oscar wilde
winsor mccay
janis joplin
clara bow (not sure about spelling)
timothy leary
h p lovecraft
and i can't seem to remember who else at the moment
---------- rise and reverberate
JHW3!
Member posted August 13, 2002 11:56 PM
oh!!!
orson welles
rita heyward
albert einstein
lucille ball (with cake batter or something all over her face)
young austin spare
charles fort
the little man in the red suit is from twin peaks.
young girl in the hat is dorothy with her dog toto from the oz books.
---------- rise and reverberate
Eroom Nala
Member posted August 15, 2002 01:56 AM
Wow thanks for the list. I'm trying to set up a page of annotations about Promethea and being able to conduct questions and answers with the original artist is really helpful.
I'd already guessed Dorothy and Toto but had completely forgotten about Twin Peaks and was wondering who the little guy in the red suit was.
------------------ "Our life is the creation of our mind" - Dhamappada
"http://www.geocities.com/eroomnala//one.html" - a Promethe Page I've started up
Eroom Nala
Member posted August 15, 2002 05:34 PM
In Moon River on pg. 21 is that Alan Moore greeting you and your wife at the Foundation Railway Station and is that Elvis Presley with his back to us just over Alan's right shoulder?
Is the man in yellow on Pg 20 supposed to Be Newton?
You could have snuck in a Harry Potter reference by making one of the signs read 9 3/4
Also I'm not sure who the guy that tells them to take platform 9 is or what book he is referring to. Is it important?
Thanks for answering all my questions so promptly
------------------ "Our life is the creation of our mind" - Dhamappada
www.geocities.com/eroomnala/one.html - a Promethea Page I've started up
JHW3!
Member posted August 16, 2002 08:04 PM
hey there eroom nala
yes to alan , wendy and i meeting. we have never been face to face so what better way to meet than in the dream world. this was done to also to signify the beginning of our own journey.
yes to elvis presley being in there as well.
and to newton.
the man pointing the way and commenting on the book is rick veitch. when he is mentioning the book he is refering to the promethea comic series itself. makes your head hurt just a little bit doesn't it?
------------- rise and reverberate
Amber
Member posted August 17, 2002 11:02 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Tupelo Bound:
Umm... anyone want to give me a quick starter course on Magic Squares, Numbers, etc? Thanks.
Cheers...
The Sacred Science Institute (http://www.sacredscience.com) carries a few exceptional books on magic squares if you really want an in-depth education on the subject. They're quite fun to play with once you've got the basics down.
Amber ------------------
The border between reality and fantasy is not fixed. It just marks the last place rival gangs of shaman fought each other to a standstill.
the Green Lama
Member posted August 17, 2002 11:31 AM
quote:
Originally posted by JHW3!:
hey there eroom nala
yes to alan , wendy and i meeting. we have never been face to face so what better way to meet than in the dream world. this was done to also to signify the beginning of our own journey.
yes to elvis presley being in there as well.
and to newton.
the man pointing the way and commenting on the book is rick veitch. when he is mentioning the book he is refering to the promethea comic series itself. makes your head hurt just a little bit doesn't it?
------------- rise and reverberate
Hellyeah, that was a BRILLIANT issue...
heh, Rick Veitch... now I want to go and re-read my Rare Bit Fiends.
Mr. Williams, I've been a big fan of yours since Chase #1. Keep up the mind-blowing work!
------------------ the Green Lama
1. DC, Please Collect Grant Morrison's Doom Patrol in TPB!!
2. Put Steel in the JLA where he belongs!
3. Bring back Chase, All-Star Squadron, and Justice Legion A!
Proud participant in the London Comic Jam!
Check out the website here: http://www.eccentrix.com/artist/lcj/
Also check out my website: http://www.geocities.com/rugosecone/index.html
Click on the "My Sketchbook" Link for my drawings and comics.
Amber
Member posted August 17, 2002 11:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by vorlon:
Ms. Portman might be a touch expensive, but I agree good choice.
We also have an actress (well model at the very least) who looks like Sophie. I'd have to dig out my back-issues to get her name.
Why not her?
I've always pictured Sophie more as Michelle Rodriguez (Girlfight, Fast and the Furious) than Natalie Portman; and I've never been terribly impressed with Portman's performances, anyway. Rodriguez has enough stage presence that she could easily shift from the less assured Sophie to the stunning Promethea; Portman, on the other hand, would need a lot more than a big wig to make Promethea even remotely believable. Besides, Rodriguez needs a showcase role to bring her into the limelight she deserves. Promethea could be it.
Personally, I'd rather not see a Promethea movie made unless it was by a director who truly respected the material (like Peter Jackson with LOTR or the Wachowski Brothers with The Matrix), as well as one who has the expertise to carry it off. This is too good a story with too great a message to be cheapened by a Hollywood blockobomb.
Then again, if it became a popular movie (true to the book or not), then there would probably be a lot more interest in the comic. Besides bringing Moore closer to the realization of his nefarious scheme of world domination, this might also mean a longer life (or in the very least more toys) for Promethea. And that is as it should be.
Amber ------------------
The border between reality and fantasy is not fixed. It just marks the last place rival gangs of shaman fought each other to a standstill.
quote:
Originally posted by JHW3!:
hey there jdc
it is starting to look that way. they keep telling me that they are not receiving enough letters. i don't know how true that is because i'm not there. but i have noticed a lot of other titles have been lacking in the letters pages as well. it looks to me that they are selling them for add space. also it could be that people just are getting too busy to write letters anymore. i wish they would at least print some of the more interesting stuff that gets posted here for those readers out there that don't frequent this space. that way they can see that others are still excited over this series.
-------- rise and reverberate
Verily, verily. Amen. I was really disappointed when I discovered Promethea after issue #20 and saw the Letters page puttered out before I could even communicate my excitement. If they really weren't receiving enough letters for the column before they cancelled it, I'm sure the number of letters they receive will only decrease as people realize they won't get printed. I mean, expressing your appreciation to the creators/publishers is important for all of us, but so is connecting with other fans through the Letters page. If that option is no longer available, it might discourage many people from writing in the first place, and that frustration might led to even greater apathy and decreased subscriptions (as we've seen since the Letters page died, BTW), especially in a book like Promethea which demands so much from its readers. So what do you think we can do to bring back the Letters page, if anything? Will writing letters of reader indignation help any? Or do you think this is really a financial decision that doesn't have anything to do with what the fans want?
Amber
------------------ The border between reality and fantasy is not fixed. It just marks the last place rival gangs of shaman fought each other to a standstill.
vorlon
Member posted August 17, 2002 12:16 PM
RE: Casting Sophie,
I can see Michelle Rodriguez. Thing is, Promethea is about 6 inches taller than Sophie. We'd proabbly be casting two actresses (one for Sophie, one for Promethea)or doing some LoTR CGI work to make up the height difference.
I have a harder time rating Ms. Portman's acting ability because I haven't seen her in anything besides the Star Wars movies. Her Ep. 2 performance can't be taken as indicitive of her capability because *everyone* did a an uncharacteristicly poor job. (even Chistopher Lee was blanded-out somewhat) I'm told she can be good.
Amber
Member posted August 17, 2002 12:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by vorlon:
RE: Casting Sophie,
I can see Michelle Rodriguez. Thing is, Promethea is about 6 inches taller than Sophie. We'd proabbly be casting two actresses (one for Sophie, one for Promethea)or doing some LoTR CGI work to make up the height difference.
I think the latter option would be the best, for the simple reason having the same actress act both parts would make it a lot more seamless and understandable; it would also drive home the point that Promethea is a "higher" aspect of Sophie.
And I can't help but think that if we cast two different actresses for the same Superheroine the feminists would be all over it, "Oh, so the guys are capable of playing the full scope of their superhero characters but the women have to have it pre-digested for them? This is just another example of Hollywood's inability to write and cast solid female roles..." blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Not that pissing feminists off is a bad thing in and of itself, in fact, I try to do it as often as I can, but in this case I might agree with them in practice, even though the two characters are distinct in principle. They both need to be played by the same actress, even if we have to sprinkle some Hobbit magick about.
If a Promethea movie IS made, this will probably be a moot point, anyway. No Hollywood film is going to pay two actresses when they could do the job with just one. Little things like height differences mean nothing to an industry which isn't even giving Bullseye a freakin' costume in Daredevil. Not that I agree with *that*, but hey, that's just the way it is.
I have a harder time rating Ms. Portman's acting ability because I haven't seen her in anything besides the Star Wars movies. Her Ep. 2 performance can't be taken as indicitive of her capability because *everyone* did a an uncharacteristicly poor job. (even Chistopher Lee was blanded-out somewhat) I'm told she can be good.
[/QUOTE]
Trust me, I've seen several of her movies. If you've seen Star Wars you've pretty much seen the scope of her abilities. Same blank look, same mousey voice, same pretty-yet-unimposing bearing. The only use she'd be as Sophie is to show what a vast transformation she undergoes to be Promethea, and I'm not sure that's a good thing. Enough of the story is so hard to grasp to begin with, the character of Sophie/Promethea needs to be fundamentally "buyable" for it to work.
Amber ------------------
The border between reality and fantasy is not fixed. It just marks the last place rival gangs of shaman fought each other to a standstill.
Amber
Member posted August 17, 2002 02:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by WeepingGorilla:
Very true, but IMHO the person in the top position seems dominant during sex. (As an aside, there’s a midrash that suggests that Adam’s first wife Lilith was cast aside because she climbed on top.) I could understand a writer or artist choosing that image to suggest the roles of each man in the relationship.
The story of Lilith actually has a much deeper symbolism that directly relates to the story of Promethea. She and Adam in this story can be seen as symbolic of the feminine and masculine aspects of the human soul; Lilith represents the feminine, magickal Mystery that is "over" the masculine Magician archetype. Adam, as the Magician, wants to make himself Master over the Magick, when in fact Magick is the Mistress the Magician serves. Lilith, as the Goddess she is, recognizes this fact, and does not allow Adam to dominate her.
Hence enters Eve, Adam's second wife. Poor Eve. She's been made to be a "helpmeet" for Adam, which means she doesn't know she's a Goddess but is "innocent" of the knowledge of her divine feminine presence. So Lilith comes to enlighten her, disguised as the wise old snake goddess, an ancient symbol of mystical knowledge and initiation. She winds herself up the Tree of Knowledge and instructs Eve to eat from its fruit. Eve and Adam do so. And so mankind "falls" from their innocence into the material world of the Goddess manifest. (BTW, here is an excellent image of Lilith as the Snake Goddess:
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/Lilith/broca12.html)
If you've read issue #10, you'll recognize every bit of this symbolism all over again. During Tantric sex the Goddess Kundalini (who is a serpent) winds her way up our spines, the trunk of our own inherent Tree of Knowledge (which looks an awful lot like a caduceus, symbolically speaking). We eat from the "fruit" of the Tree when we reach Keter at our crowns. You might notice that when Promethea and Jack Faust perform this sex magick, Promethea is on top, just like Lilith. This is no coincidence. All magicians must recognize the supremacy of mystical knowledge over their own powers before they can ascend the Tree. In homosexual sex magick, the partner which is "dominate" is acting as the feminine representative of Magick while the partner underneath is acting as the masculine Magician. Interestingly, this corresponds to the traditional Greek interpretation of the penetrator-dominant/pentrated-passive, whereas in female/male sex magick the dominant partner is the penetrated. This becomes important in examining some issues in Western feminist philosophy, but I won't go into all that mess. The point is that sex magick has less to do with our physical body and its sex than it does with the forces of masculine and feminine energies which exist fully (when properly developed) in both sexes.
Amber
------------------ The border between reality and fantasy is not fixed. It just marks the last place rival gangs of shaman fought each other to a standstill.
Stately Wayne Manor
Member posted August 17, 2002 04:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Amber:
So what do you think we can do to bring back the Letters page, if anything? Will writing letters of reader indignation help any? Or do you think this is really a financial decision that doesn't have anything to do with what the fans want?
Amber
I didn't mourn the demise of the Promethea letters page, or any of the other ABC letter columns either, because they weren't set up like other letters pages-with give and take between the writer, editor, and other readers. The answers to all the letters were written in a sort of vague, somewhat jokey style by some anonymous editorial person, which was somehow geared toward the general feel of the book in which it appeared. In the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen lettercol, we got that Victorian-era penny dreadful-style hyperbole (still used in its ads and Previews solicitation info) instead of any concrete information. In Promethea, it was vague mystical babble, when it wasn't defending Moore. It's not like when the Vertigo lettercols got canned-in those, people like Garth Ennis and Grant Morrison would actually respond to reader's opinions, both for good and bad. I never wrote any letters to any ABC book because frankly, it didn't seem to be worth the effort! And I'm more than a little surprised that it hasn't been mentioned in the numerous instances that this question has come up here on the message boards. When the ABC people are ready to have real letter columns, then I might consider sending them actual letters.
Stately Wayne Manor
Member posted August 17, 2002 04:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Amber:
I think the latter option would be the best, for the simple reason having the same actress act both parts would make it a lot more seamless and understandable; it would also drive home the point that Promethea is a "higher" aspect of Sophie.
And I can't help but think that if we cast two different actresses for the same Superheroine the feminists would be all over it, "Oh, so the guys are capable of playing the full scope of their superhero characters but the women have to have it pre-digested for them? This is just another example of Hollywood's inability to write and cast solid female roles..." blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Not that pissing feminists off is a bad thing in and of itself, in fact, I try to do it as often as I can, but in this case I might agree with them in practice, even though the two characters are distinct in principle. They both need to be played by the same actress, even if we have to sprinkle some Hobbit magick about. Amber

I think even hardcore feminists would admit that Sophie and Promethea look like two different people, with some shared characteristics. I don't see why having seperate actresses play them would be a problem, personally. It would be preferable to taking a young girl and augmenting her using makeup effects or CGI, IMO.
Tupelo Bound
Member posted August 18, 2002 12:10 AM
Kind of like a CptMarvel/Shazam type situation, to a lesser degree...
And Amber, i don't think having two characters play the role in any way detracts from any feminist theories or ideas.
Cheers...
Oh: Natalie Portman seems a little too, um, little. And white. Let's hear it for Rosario Dawson! (ignore some of her other work and look at SIDEWALKS OF NEW YORK... she's pretty damn tremendous) ------------------
"Don't you know there ain't no Devil,
there's just God when He's drunk..."
—Tom Waits
Tupelo Bound
Member posted August 18, 2002 12:12 AM
Not, by the way, that I'm saying ethnic verisimilitude is the basis for judgment on casting (M.C.Duncan as Kingpin? Great!), I'm just saying since we're hypothetically thinking 1) who looks like her, and 2) who could actually act well in the role, and especially 3) who could do both? that R.D.'s the choice for me. Cheers...
------------------ "Don't you know there ain't no Devil,
there's just God when He's drunk..."
—Tom Waits
Amber
Member posted August 18, 2002 09:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Stately Wayne Manor:
I think even hardcore feminists would admit that Sophie and Promethea look like two different people, with some shared characteristics.
Ah, but you're expecting feminists to be reasonable. I think that's too much to ask, even in a non-election year.
quote:
I don't see why having seperate actresses play them would be a problem, personally. It would be preferable to taking a young girl and augmenting her using makeup effects or CGI, IMO.
Okay. So who should play Promethea?
Amber ------------------
The border between reality and fantasy is not fixed. It just marks the last place rival gangs of shaman fought each other to a standstill.
Stately Wayne Manor
Member posted August 19, 2002 09:34 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Amber:
Okay. So who should play Promethea?
Amber
I have no idea.
Portman as Sophie makes a lot of sense to me, but I don't know about who to play Prom. I'll have to ponder that one.
I wish a Promethea movie could have been made about six years ago so Fairuza Balk could have played Stacia.
vorlon
Member posted August 19, 2002 01:12 PM
Being the Great Demon of Feminism (a straight white male) I have gotten to not giving a rat's rear end what feminists think.
If one casts Promethea the way Spider-man was cast (i.e. with second and thrid-tier actors) one actor isn't much more expensive than two.
With two actors you can do things like have a white Sophie and a more arabic-looking Promethea. Arguably, Promethea and Sophie are two different characters. Promethea has a outlook and opinion that isn't the same as Sophie's so you aren't really casting the same character twice. Sopie and Sophie/Promethea aren't the same.
JHW3!
Member posted August 19, 2002 02:47 PM
hey there amber
your view points for the casting of promethea are most certainly interesting. but i feel we would need two different actresses. one to play sophie and one to play sophie as promethea. that in itself would be a challenge but necessary due to the differences in the character's physical forms.
also some of natalie portman's less mainstream roles have been quite good. but i have yet to see her in a role where all of the focus is on her. so i'm not sure either. ------------
rise and reverberate
JHW3!
Member posted August 19, 2002 03:10 PM
hey there vorlon
wow this conversation seems to have taken off hasn't it?
i agree with you about sophie and sophie/promethea being two different characters but similar aspects to them. therefore requiring two different actresses, even though promethea does refer to herself as sophie on occasion. this has more to do with sophie's mind going along for the ride, they share a physical existence.
also doing a digital make-over to whoever would play sophie just wouldn't work very well. promethea is more than just taller than sophie, her entire body structure is different than sophie's as well. she has more muscle and mass. sophie is a very real looking skinny young woman and promethea is much more of fuller figured and athletic woman. also slightly older looking than sophie as well.
------------ rise and reverberate
Peirigill
Member posted August 19, 2002 05:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by vorlon:
Being the Great Demon of Feminism (a straight white male) I have gotten to not giving a rat's rear end what feminists think.
Now, vorlon, that's unfair. The kind of "feminist" who'll dog you for being a straight white male would give you the same problems if you were gay or non-white.
My favorite definition of "feminism" is "the radical notion that women are human beings." That, I can get behind. Aristotle, on the other hand...
quote:
Originally posted by vorlon:
If one casts Promethea the way Spider-man was cast (i.e. with second and thrid-tier actors) one actor isn't much more expensive than two.
With two actors you can do things like have a white Sophie and a more arabic-looking Promethea. Arguably, Promethea and Sophie are two different characters. Promethea has a outlook and opinion that isn't the same as Sophie's so you aren't really casting the same character twice. Sopie and Sophie/Promethea aren't the same.
Well, they're fundamentally different roles, aren't they? Sophie, all by her herself, isn't Promethea, no more than blue is green.
What story would you tell in a movie? The same story as the book, ending with the birthday party at the Temple? You might as well leave Faust out, then.
Tupelo Bound
Member posted August 19, 2002 08:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Amber:
Ah, but you're expecting feminists to be reasonable. I think that's too much to ask, even in a non-election year.
Amber
Have I been unreasonable?
And there's nothing preventing straight white males from being feminists... the more the better, y'know? Cheers...
------------------ "Don't you know there ain't no Devil, there's just God when He's drunk..."
—Tom Waits
Nightwing
Member posted August 19, 2002 08:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by vorlon:
I have a harder time rating Ms. Portman's acting ability because I haven't seen her in anything besides the Star Wars movies. Her Ep. 2 performance can't be taken as indicitive of her capability because *everyone* did a an uncharacteristicly poor job. (even Chistopher Lee was blanded-out somewhat) I'm told she can be good.
Rent Leon the professional- her debut on the big screen at 12 years old(I think that's was her age).
------------------ The original Nightwing: been here since day #1 of the boards and have been robbed of all my posts! quote:
Eroom Nala
Member posted August 20, 2002 02:41 AM
Thanks for all your prompt answers.
A couple more questions I meant to ask before about pgs 20-21.
Who is the man walking away from Promethea and Barbara on the panel at the bottom of page 20? Does the naked women represent a specific person or is she just an allegorical figure (like the skeleton)? Why is she wearing a hat on the last panel on page 20 but hatless on top of page 21?
Or is it a different naked woman this time?
Is it the same naked woman with her back to us on pg 20 and facing us on pg 21 (a sort of precursor to the mobius strip in the next issue)?
I had a slight idea that the man might be referring to Promethea book itself but I wasn't quite sure. where does the rise and reverberate quote come from?
thanks once again for all your answers
quote:
Originally posted by JHW3!:
hey there eroom nala
yes to alan , wendy and i meeting. we have never been face to face so what better way to meet than in the dream world. this was done to also to signify the beginning of our own journey.
yes to elvis presley being in there as well. and to newton.
the man pointing the way and commenting on the book is rick veitch. when he is mentioning the book he is refering to the promethea comic series itself. makes your head hurt just a little bit doesn't it?
------------- rise and reverberate
------------------ vorlon
Member posted August 20, 2002 01:09 PM
Perigill,
I know a woman who hews to your definition of feminism, yet is politically to the right of Atilla the Hun. She wouldn't let anyone treat her like a second-class citizen, yet has no connection to the political/social movement called "feminism." As a result, I would suggest your definition, born of the 60's, is regrettably out of date.
As Liberalism, an unbrella political/social movement that includes Feminism, drifts leftward into extremism, I become more and more identified as the enemy. I'm sure most rank and file members of the moment have no ax to grind my way but the Feminism's achademic underpinnings does. By virtue of my gender and sexual orientation, I am the enemy until and unless I deny and reject any trace of the masculine in my personality.
If this is not true, it sure seems true.
Moreover, if your definition is all I need to be a feminist, I already am one.
vorlon
Member posted August 20, 2002 01:21 PM
JWH3,
...So if I read you right, a movie-Promethea ought look like an archtypical or...I'm looking for a better word than "idealized" but can't find one...woman, right? Makes sense. What did Jack Faust say to Promethea about this? "Obviously my body isn't perfect. Nothing physical is. Only things like you can be perfect. Only stories."
What do you think of a fully-CGI Promethea? The slight unreality of CGI might fit Promethea's unearthly nature.
Bavarian
Member posted August 20, 2002 02:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Eroom Nala:
Does the naked women represent a specific person or is she just an allegorical figure (like the skeleton)?
Why is she wearing a hat on the last panel on page 20 but hatless on top of page 21? Or is it a different naked woman this time?
The scene at the station is obviously an allusion to the pictures of Paul Delvaux (belgian surrealist, died in the 80s). Stations, naked girls and skeletons are typical elements of his paintings, whose dreamlike atmosphere fits well to Yesod.
Ralph
Member posted August 20, 2002 09:12 PM
Hi JHW3!
As usual I enjoyed talking to you and Wendy at the big show earlier this month. Of course I was sad to hear about those two pages from #23 being snatched up real early (and all of you fine folks who weren't at the San Diego con and didn't see those advance pages - you've got a big treat in front of you!), but I'm sure that I'll find some other pages to give a good home to.
JH, could you e-mail me at: ralphcomix@lvcm.com so that we can talk about details of your planned signing (I almost typed singing - that'd be something to behold, not that I'm saying you can't sing!) here at my store in Vegas?
Thanks,
------------------ Alternate Reality Comics
Las Vegas, NV
JHW3!
Member posted August 21, 2002 01:26 AM
hey there vorlon
you hit the nail on the head about what promethea would be like on the screen version. but i still feel that an actual actress would be a better way to go rather than cgi. there are still too many problems with doing the human form with cgi. movements are not realistic enough for one thing. plus with all of the other fx that would be required the movie would already be costly. another reason to go with a live person. even though promethea is referred to as perfect i wouldn't want her to become stereotypical of the male idealized woman. she should still have real human flaws. its the flaws that make us interesting and therefore would make her more interesting as well from a physical point of view. much the way i draw her and not what you normally see passing for women in superhero comics. she still needs to be believable and that would her more beautiful. no breast enhanced synched waist look here. i don't find anything that portrays that type of idealization attractive. which i'm sure you're not suggesting. but with a studio fx crew i'm pretty sure that is what hollywood would try to give us. so definitely no cgi people.
----------- rise and reverberate
JHW3!
Member posted August 21, 2002 01:28 AM
hey there ralph
i will email you soon or call the store. we always enjoy talking with you guys too. we are looking forward to seeing you vegas.
------------ rise and reverberate
vorlon
Member posted August 21, 2002 12:58 PM
JWH3,
You're right. I keep thinking of a Promethea movie over which the creators would exercize some creative control.
I sometimes forget the realities of life on Malkuth.
Stately Wayne Manor
Member posted August 21, 2002 01:12 PM
Hey, JHW...I was digging around in the ol' collection last night and came across the first nine issues of DC's version of Judge Dredd, from about 1994. I'm not sure why I have them, except perhaps because they were scripted by Andy Helfer, and I was probably hoping for a little of that Helfer/Baker Shadow magic...anyway, I was surprised to see that you (and several others, who have nearly all vanished into obscurity) provided art for at least 4 of them! Was this your first work for DC, and do you remember much about how this came to be?
quote:
Originally posted by vorlon:
I sometimes forget the realities of life on Malkuth.
Malkuth is just one aspect of the world we live in. It is not the whole world. Everything is in everything. The Tree of Life is a fractal philosophical machine.
That being said, I agree.
Eroom Nala
Member posted August 21, 2002 10:59 PM
Hiya JH
You mentioned somewhere that Issue #22 would be delayed owing to an editorial decision. Do you know what the new release date for #22 is?
------------------ JDC
Member posted August 22, 2002 05:56 AM
I believe that issue #22 will go on sale on September 18th, to coincide with the release of the Promethea action figure set.
Archipelago
Member posted August 22, 2002 11:13 AM
quote:
Originally posted by JDC:
I believe that issue #22 will go on sale on September 18th, to coincide with the release of the Promethea action figure set.
I'm holding out for the Promethea Lunch Box myself.
Eroom Nala
Member posted August 23, 2002 02:21 AM
How about a Promethea chess set. Jack Faust could be the bishops
quote:
Originally posted by Archipelago:
I'm holding out for the Promethea Lunch Box myself.
timaximus
New Member posted August 23, 2002 02:18 PM
well, we've already waited quite a while for #22, doesn't this just mean there'll be a shorter wait between 22 and 23?
Tim
JHW3!
Member posted August 24, 2002 12:13 AM
hey there stately
i provided art up to issue twelve. i left when andy did and yes it was some of my earliest work for dc. some of it good and some of it i don't really care for.
---------- rise and reverberate
JHW3!
Member posted August 24, 2002 12:19 AM
hey there eroom nala
actually i'm not sure when it will show up. it depends on how quick the printer can get to it i guess. hopefully we aren't waiting all the way till september 18th. it shouldn't take that long. i do know that it has already gone to the printer sometime last week. ------------
rise and reverberate
JHW3!
Member posted August 24, 2002 12:22 AM
hey there archepilago
i don't see a lunchbox anytime in the near future. but you never know i could be wrong. so in the meantime check out the figure. it looks pretty nice. -----------
rise and reverberate
Amber
Member posted August 24, 2002 01:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by vorlon:
Perigill,
I know a woman who hews to your definition of feminism, yet is politically to the right of Atilla the Hun. She wouldn't let anyone treat her like a second-class citizen, yet has no connection to the political/social movement called "feminism." As a result, I would suggest your definition, born of the 60's, is regrettably out of date.
As Liberalism, an unbrella political/social movement that includes Feminism, drifts leftward into extremism, I become more and more identified as the enemy. I'm sure most rank and file members of the moment have no ax to grind my way but the Feminism's achademic underpinnings does. By virtue of my gender and sexual orientation, I am the enemy until and unless I deny and reject any trace of the masculine in my personality.
If this is not true, it sure seems true.
Moreover, if your definition is all I need to be a feminist, I already am one.
Vorlon, you are both wise and cunning.
Amber ------------------
Amber
Member posted August 24, 2002 01:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by vorlon:
JWH3,
What do you think of a fully-CGI Promethea? The slight unreality of CGI might fit Promethea's unearthly nature.
I am not JWH3 -- as if there could be any confusion -- but I think that's a TREMENDOUS idea. Especially considering the lack of suitable actresses who could actually play Promethea. And with that new movie "Simone" coming out where the actress is fully virtual, well, the technology's already there, all it needs is development.
Amber ------------------
Peirigill
Member posted August 24, 2002 04:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by vorlon:
Perigill,
I know a woman who hews to your definition of feminism, yet is politically to the right of Atilla the Hun. She wouldn't let anyone treat her like a second-class citizen, yet has no connection to the political/social movement called "feminism." As a result, I would suggest your definition, born of the 60's, is regrettably out of date.
I once had to endure a lecture from a woman who told me how much she hated feminists. It took all my self-control - and the fact that I was on the job - not to say, "Shut up, b*tch, and go make me a sandwich." But that just wouldn't have been very PC of me, would it?
quote:
As Liberalism, an unbrella political/social movement that includes Feminism, drifts leftward into extremism, I become more and more identified as the enemy. I'm sure most rank and file members of the moment have no ax to grind my way but the Feminism's achademic underpinnings does. By virtue of my gender and sexual orientation, I am the enemy until and unless I deny and reject any trace of the masculine in my personality.
If this is not true, it sure seems true.
Well, that's clearly hyberbole on your part. "Feminism," in its strident extreme, has been on the wane for a while. The Anita Hill hearings created immense outrage amongst feminists, but the country as a whole just didn't care. Personally, I think feminism went into full retreat with Clinton's sex scandals. From a feminist view, was Lewinsky a victim, or sexually empowered? (Lewinsky as Madonna or Whore? Blechh. But I guess even Monica is sacred in Binah.) Neither one spun well. And frankly, Clinton's whole adminstration was filled with conundrums for feminists. Did Hillary set national policy or bake cookies? Did Clinton betray them with Lana Guinier or empower them with Reno and Shalala? Etc., etc. My roommate subscribes to Ms. Magazine - some odd perversion on his part. Ms. has totally revamped in the past couple years, and has shifted away from its old stridency. Hard-core "feminism" just doesn't play well anymore, even among self-defined feminists.
As for masculine values, they're alive and kicking, especially after 9/11. The brave, strong fireman who's willing to race into a collapsing building to save an innocent - that masculine ideal hasn't been so strong in our national consciousness in a long time.
I guess it depends on what you mean by "traces of masculinity." Because I'm gay, a lot of people assume I can't be masculine, no matter how much muscle I put on or how butch I act. I enjoy seeing women act butch for a very selfish reason: if they're allowed to "act like men," then maybe I can be allowed to enjoy the arts, show affection to a man, read comic books about women heroes, etc.
You know, lots of us marginalized types like having straight men in our lives. It makes us feel less marginalized.
Yes, some feminist intellectuals treat men as the enemy. Others don't. I say we reclaim the word "feminist" from the former.
Sorry to bring all this up again, but I hated the idea the Amber found me neither wise nor cunning...
Tupelo Bound
Member posted August 24, 2002 05:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Amber:
I am not JWH3 -- as if there could be any confusion -- but I think that's a TREMENDOUS idea. Especially considering the lack of suitable actresses who could actually play Promethea. And with that new movie "Simone" coming out where the actress is fully virtual, well, the technology's already there, all it needs is development.
Amber
Amber: the character of Simone in SIMONE is not a virtually created one -- that is merely the conceit of the movie. The actress who plays the virtual actress is named Rachel Roberts. Cheers... ------------------
Amber
Member posted August 25, 2002 08:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Tupelo Bound:
Amber: the character of Simone in SIMONE is not a virtually created one -- that is merely the conceit of the movie. The actress who plays the virtual actress is named Rachel Roberts.
She might act Simone, but Simone's actual appearance in the movie is an amalgam of several different people digitally morphed into one actress. It's much like modern animation technology which uses a live model to form the action/expression basis for an animated form. I think this could be an excellent way to portray an idyllic Promethea.
Amber
------------------ Amber
Member posted August 25, 2002 08:59 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Peirigill:
Sorry to bring all this up again, but I hated the idea the Amber found me neither wise nor cunning...
*Hugs* You'll always be my favorite gym rat, Peirigill.
Amber ------------------
JHW3!
Member posted August 25, 2002 02:55 PM
hey there amber
about the digital composite promethea for a film...i don't know, it might work but would it cause her to be forced into a flatter box style of acting though. i would want a full range acted promethea for sure. in the comic we try to portray her with a range of emotion. so the promethea film version i would hope to have a nice dramatic performance. someone you could believe in even though she is a goddess. this would be quite important in order for an audience to accept her like we do when reading the comic. there are some lesser known actresses that i have seen over the past couple of years, mostly on television, that could really pull off promethea visually and acting wise. all they would need is to have some sort of physical training in order for her to have a little more muscle. using more of an unknown rather than a star would probably have a better reaction with audiences as well in terms of making you believe in her.
-------------- rise and reverberate
vorlon
Member posted August 25, 2002 10:06 PM
quote:
Well, that's clearly hyberbole on your part. "Feminism," in its strident extreme, has been on the wane for a while.
Go to an Amiga user's group some time. Note the "circle the wagons" mentality. It's a pastel-version of the cultic mentality. Mac users may be there in another 5 years.
I think that when a group is in retreat they tend to get more, not less, strident.
quote:
The Anita Hill hearings created immense outrage amongst feminists, but the country as a whole just didn't care. Personally, I think feminism went into full retreat with Clinton's sex scandals. From a feminist view, was Lewinsky a victim, or sexually empowered? (Lewinsky as Madonna or Whore? Blechh. But I guess even Monica is sacred in Binah.) Neither one spun well. And frankly, Clinton's whole adminstration was filled with conundrums for feminists. Did Hillary set national policy or bake cookies? Did Clinton betray them with Lana Guinier or empower them with Reno and Shalala? Etc., etc.
My personal opinion is that Clinton used feminists the way cunning and charismatic men have duped and used women for thousands of years. Obviously, I'm not a fan.
(between Clinton and Reagan, I have learned a strong suspicion of charismatic politicians. The blinding light also produces deep shadows)
I don't see much doubt about Monica Lewenski. She was definitly acting out of her Babylon nature. Just in a very immature way.
quote:
My roommate subscribes to Ms. Magazine - some odd perversion on his part. Ms. has totally revamped in the past couple years, and has shifted away from its old stridency. Hard-core "feminism" just doesn't play well anymore, even among self-defined feminists.
"Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair."
It had to happen sooner or later.
quote:
I guess it depends on what you mean by "traces of masculinity." Because I'm gay, a lot of people assume I can't be masculine, no matter how much muscle I put on or how butch I act. I enjoy seeing women act butch for a very selfish reason: if they're allowed to "act like men," then maybe I can be allowed to enjoy the arts, show affection to a man, read comic books about women heroes, etc.
In one way, we have a similar problem via dissimilar mechanisms. The gay stereotype expects you to effiminate. Feminism expects me to scrifice my drive, my aggression, my capacity for independent action on the altar of The Mother, to make blood scrifice that they can step into the void I leave. You want hyperbole? THAT's hyperbole. Correctly identifying myself as the great enemy of Feminism isn't. SWM makes me a metaphor for western culture = Patricarcy = evil.
quote:
You know, lots of us marginalized types like having straight men in our lives. It makes us feel less marginalized.
You'd get no help from me. I'm not exactly mainstream. I'm marginalized too. I am an intellectual and, I guess, a heretic since my christian heritage is these days cut with an increasing amount of buddhism.
quote:
Yes, some feminist intellectuals treat men as the enemy. Others don't. I say we reclaim the word "feminist" from the former.
Good. Let's start with returning to that old 60's definition. We might remind everyone that SWM's are people too.
mmaxwell
Member posted August 26, 2002 12:27 AM
Speaking as someone who's worked in digital animation, i can tell you that getting a human performance to look good is _much_ harder than you'd think it would be. If you look at all the CG features out there (including _Final Fantasy_, which was the only one to try and feature "photorealistic" human characters, the weak link in all of them has been the 'human' characters.
Personally, a mediocre actress is going to present a more convincing Promethea (or just about anything) than a CG actress. The technology just isn't there when we're talking about humans. Dragons? Sure. Trolls? Orcs? You betcha. They look great.
But we know far too much about how humans work, and we know it on a subconscious level. That and the technology to mimic the way that skin and muscle and fat work over bone and other layers of tisse isn't quite there yet, either.
Frankly, to get anything close to the experience of reading _Promethea_, i think that you'd have to consider traditional animation techniques mixed with the new stuff. But how would we be able to suggest the layouts and flow that are an integral part of the unfolding story?
Not to be the voice of doom or anything...
-Matt, who really digs the design at work in _Promethea_. I just wish i could find more back issues...
vorlon
Member posted August 26, 2002 01:03 PM
Pomethea as animae...
Could be real good.
Peirigill
Member posted August 26, 2002 02:59 PM
Promethea's a story, after all. Why shouldn't she have a storybook look to her? Something that just doesn't quite look like a human being, but more like the idealized dream of one?
Verisimilitude be damned. Bring on the digital artistry!
JHW3!
Member posted August 26, 2002 11:06 PM
i have to agree with mmaxwell. cg just isn't up to par when it comes down to the fluid movement of a real humanbeing. i must also say that i would prefer live action as opposed to animation. don't get me wrong, i love animation. its just that if i wanted to see a drawing of promethea i could just look to my work in the comics. i would look to a film to give me something different. but if the film was to be animation i would like for it to have the same look and feel that tezuka's metropolis has. has anyone out there seen this otomo produced film? it is simply stunning.
---------- rise and reverberate
Eroom Nala
Member posted August 30, 2002 03:27 AM
Here's a real nitpicking question that should really go to Todd Klein. Maybe you could pass it on to him. Is Stacia's surname
Van de Veer Issue 6 pg. 17
or Vanderveer Issue 19, pg. 1?
------------------ Eroom Nala
Member posted August 30, 2002 03:31 AM
Covers
Are your covers inspired by specific works of the artists referred to or just their work in general. JDC told me you said that Isue #2 cover was based on a fortyish noir film poster. Maybe the Big Sleep? Is #11 based on a specific 50's monster movie like Them! or just 50's monster movies in general. Was your picture of Christ on the Cross in Gold inspired by Dali's crucifixion painting or any other specific work?
Eroom Nala
Member posted August 30, 2002 03:33 AM
If this were a better world and you and Alan had some say in a movie version to be made of Promethea who would you pick to do the soundtrack and who would you get to direct the film?
Terry Gilliam maybe?
JHW3!
Member posted August 31, 2002 01:29 AM
hey there eroom
the covers for promethea are both. some are specific but most are styles of art or a certain artists visual sense, like the van gogh cover for example is not based on any of his compositions but rather the feel and style that he had in some of his work. some covers are also just something we wanted to try and not based on any one thing like the cover to #11, just an homage to old monster sci-fi flicks in general. the covers that i just did for 24 and 25 are interesting. 24 is based on middle eastern art like what you might see painted on a wooden plaque or ceramic tile. the cover to 25 is stylistically based on winsor mccay's little nemo drawings of his.
the mix up on stacia's last name spelling i believe is on alan, todd puts down what alan scripts. i don't think any of us had noticed that error before. good eye you've got there.
the music for a promethea film i think would best be suited by a mix of atmospheric sounds and cutting edge rock bands. say a little of the faint with a little of fields of the nephilim with a little moby soundscape stuff and some brian eno for good measure. and maybe a little bit of orchestrated score as well. direction for it...terry gilliam would be interesting and maybe ang lee as well. crouching tiger was beautifully poetic and i think promethea would need some of that. i'm not sure who else...maybe ridley scott. ------------
rise and reverberate
JHW3! Have you ever done (or will you ever do) an interview with the lovely ladies of Sequential Tart? Hee hee.
------------------ I bring you...FIRE!
vorlon
Member posted August 31, 2002 02:29 PM
Directors for A Promethea moovie:
I would be hesitate about Gilliam for the same reasons I would be about Tim Burton. I think that both could only do "their take" on Promethea, and both of these directors are almost-compulsively edgy. Promethea is many things, but it isn't edgy. The result would/could warp the storyline to much or produce hellacious creative conflicts.
James Cameon could do a great job if he was able to get his head in the proper space. Because of LOTR, suggesting Peter Jackson, would practically be typecasting.
vorlon
Member posted August 31, 2002 02:33 PM
On a different note:
I was rereading promethea #10 this morning.
One of the few advantages of being a reader that subtlties can pass by is that I get to discover them later. I was just blown away anew by the composition.
JHW3: who the heck is the readheaded girl with the dog on the lower-left cover? And the small guy on the opposide side: Is that, by any chance, Leisure Suit Larry?
Stately Wayne Manor
Member posted August 31, 2002 03:50 PM
Y'know, I think Gilliam would be perfect. He's nowhere near as "edgy" as Burton, as any viewing of the big-hearted Fisher King or almost sentimental Baron Munchausen could attest. Plus, he's got the imagination to do the job in spades. We might get some Pythonesque humor here and there, but I honestly think that would work in Prom's world just fine...already is there, in the likes of the Weeping Gorilla/Chuckling Duck stuff, and many of the people and places Sophie and Babs have been in their current trek.
And in keeping with the topic:
Hey JHW! Why do you suppose it is that the immensely talented D.C. Johnson isn't writing at least one ongoing for somebody, especially DC?
JHW3!
Member posted August 31, 2002 04:56 PM
hey there promethea
i do believe that there is the possiblity of an interview with sequential tart in the near future. ----------- rise and reverberate
JHW3!
Member posted August 31, 2002 05:11 PM
hey there vorlon
on the cover to issue 10 that is dorothy and toto from a book version of wizard of oz and the little man in the red suit is from twin peaks.
about film directors for promethea...i feel that any director to take on something like this would be stretched no matter what. promethea would require many different things. the city scenes would definitely need to have an edgy gritty feel to them. the immateria would be the opposite, in a way, of that. the humor is definitely a liitle on the darkside. but the seriousness of promethea is very heady. and then there is all of the poeticness as well. combining all of these elements into a film would be an extreme challenge i think for any director. our best bet would be to have a director that can be very visionary. so the drawback would be that the director would have to be visionary. therefore we would inevitably get that from them. so we would have to hope that this visionary director could relate and understand the visionary sense of the comic. a lot to hope for but i do think some of the people previously mentioned could pull it off if they put enough thought into it.
---------- rise and reverberate
JHW3!
Member posted August 31, 2002 05:19 PM
hey there stately
mister d.c. johnson is really not interested at the moment in an ongoing series. he wants to concentrate on telling solid good self contained stories that will have longer shelf life in various formats rather than the monthly grind. smart move i think. material that can be collected and that has longevity. he and i are currently co-writing 4 different projects that i can't go into specifics on at the moment. some of it is well known characters and some of it not. i will be illustrating one of them for sure and might be doing covers or something for some of the others. one of the projects we are writing together will be drawn by seth fisher and if you haven't seen his work before it is simply amazing.
--------------- rise and reverberate
Eroom Nala
Member posted September 03, 2002 03:53 AM
HIya JHW
I'm annotating issues of Promethea and looking through issue 9 Bringing down the temple pgs 22-23 I think I can figure out most of the fairytale figures you've depicted.
Pied Piper, pegasus, giant and goose goldilocks Dr. Suess Cat in the Hat Goldlocks and the 3 bears arthur and merlin, flying monkey from Wizard of Oz, Alice mad hatter and white rabbit but I'm not sure about the giant creatures who look like they're from Where the Wild Things Are and the guy on the spinning wheel. Could you name any of the ones I've missed out or have got wrong. Thanks.

------------------ Stately Wayne Manor
Member posted September 03, 2002 10:06 AM
quote:
Originally posted by JHW3!:
hey there stately
mister d.c. johnson is really not interested at the moment in an ongoing series. he wants to concentrate on telling solid good self contained stories that will have longer shelf life in various formats rather than the monthly grind. smart move i think. material that can be collected and that has longevity. he and i are currently co-writing 4 different projects that i can't go into specifics on at the moment. some of it is well known characters and some of it not. i will be illustrating one of them for sure and might be doing covers or something for some of the others. one of the projects we are writing together will be drawn by seth fisher and if you haven't seen his work before it is simply amazing.
--------------- rise and reverberate
Hey, this got reprinted in the new All The Rage column, along with a Chase pinup that I had never seen > before.
Anyway...this sounds extremely interesting. I'll be sure to keep an eye out (not literally ) and I sincerely hope that our Cameron C. will be one of the four...
JHW3!
Member posted September 03, 2002 10:22 PM
hey there eroom
yes those are creatures based on the where the wild things are. there is also cinderella and her prince. i think the spinning wheel man is the father of repunzel? then there is santa claus. and felix the cat i believe. red riding hood. i can't remember what the pigs in human clothes are from.
----------- rise and reverberate
Eroom Nala
Member posted September 03, 2002 10:36 PM
Belated congratulations on winning the Eisner for Sex, Stars and Serpents. Questions about it
Page 12 the cave painting look familiar, is it from something famous. Who's the Egyptian girl?
Pages 20-21 can you name all the deities being depicted across the pages amongs Sophie and Jack Faust ------------------
Eroom Nala
Member posted September 04, 2002 08:02 PM
One of my comic book stores was having a 25% off moving sale and I managed to score a copy of From Hell Book One the Compleat Scripts signed by Alan Moore, Eddie Campbell and Steve Bisette for $90 Australian (approx. $45 US). Mine is #480 of 1000 signed copies.
I was just wondering if there was any chance of some Promethea scripts getting the same treatment sometime in the future?
I figured out that most of the figures on pgs. 20-21 issue #10 are Sophie, Promethea, a Sophie/Jack Faust hermaphrodite type figure, Jack as magician and Jack's glamour + Thoth but I'm not sure who the Indian figures are at far left and far right.
------------------ Eroom Nala
Member posted September 05, 2002 09:41 PM
Did Alan Moore provide you with a bibliography or recommend any particular books to you when you started working on Promethea?
eg. Crowley's 777.
Stately Wayne Manor
Member posted September 05, 2002 10:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by JHW3!:
... i can't remember what the pigs in human clothes are from...
...wouldn't they be the Three Little Pigs?
Who appeared today in a funny Tom Toles political cartoon, by the way...
Eroom Nala
Member posted September 05, 2002 11:00 PM
That's what I'm guessing too. or rather two of the three little pigs and they're wearing clothes because they can build houses but why are they following Orwell's dictum
Four legs good
Two legs bad
quote:
Originally posted by Stately Wayne Manor:
...wouldn't they be the Three Little Pigs?
Who appeared today in a funny Tom Toles political cartoon, by the way...
------------------ JHW3!
Member posted September 05, 2002 11:36 PM
hey there eroom
issue 10 pages...the cave painting is a relatively famous painting of what is believed to be a shaman. i can't remember it's location though. the egyptian woman is one of a few references i have on cleopatra. the climax scene is what you described but the two fgures on either end are actually adopted from a jimi hendrix album cover of which the page design is loosely based. the indian woman on the left is inana who is seen earlier in the issue.
i have no idea if a promethea script will ever be offered for sale. at this point i doubt it but you never know. alan actually sent me copies of 777 and the book of thoth as well as a book of writing by crowley with illustrations by austin spare called now for reality.
--------- rise and reverberate
Eroom Nala
Member posted September 06, 2002 12:08 AM
I'd forgotten the Hendrix album.
Was it Axis - bold as love?
another question this time about isse 11
Who are the 3 men in the bubbles on the right on page 24?
thanks once again for all your prompt answers
quote:
Originally posted by JHW3!:
hey there eroom
. the climax scene is what you described but the two fgures on either end are actually adopted from a jimi hendrix album cover of which the page design is loosely based. the indian woman on the left is inana who is seen earlier in the issue.
i have no idea if a promethea script will ever be offered for sale. at this point i doubt it but you never know.
alan actually sent me copies of 777 and the book of thoth as well as a book of writing by crowley with illustrations by austin spare called now for reality.
--------- rise and reverberate
------------------ mmaxwell
Member posted September 06, 2002 05:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Eroom Nala:
I'd forgotten the Hendrix album.
Was it Axis - bold as love?
Bingo. You win the kewpie doll!
-Matt, master of trivia
Cobweb
New Member posted September 07, 2002 03:19 PM
Just a few comments and such:
It sounds kinda silly, but when I saw the Man From Another Place (the twin peaks midget) I just knew that I'd read Promethea to the very end. I still have a crush on Agent Dale Cooper.
Hmm, I also heard the nasty rumour that Promethea was ending (issue 32 was what I was told) but perhaps those people are just ridiculous and don't pay attention.
JHW, I met you at SDCon this year, and bought a double page spread from issue 5 (I'm a very excitable redhead), and talked your ear off for a good 20 minutes. Thanks to you and your wife for being so gracious!
You can count on the same treatment in Vegas. You'd better bring some more art with you, too! My financial aid refund check has come in and I decided that I don't really need to eat this semester. I really need more art. If it will help the deal, I'm very good hand with cakes and pies.... Of course, I'll have to steal the ingredients from my mom's house, but hey! All in the name of art!
Oh yes, and Ralph has a Promethea t-shirt, I can't recall exactly what the design was, but I threatened to beat him up and take it away when he wore it last. Any idea where one can pick that sort of thing up? I haven't found anything in all my travels through the western states. (Well, getting to LA is a lot of travel for me. I miss my cats too much to go very far.)
Thanks for the good stuff.
-Jill
JHW3!
Member posted September 07, 2002 03:24 PM
hey eroom
the three men in bubbles at the end of 11 are jack faust, neil gaiman, and a young austin spare with his hair shaved short.
---------- rise and reverberate
JHW3!
Member posted September 07, 2002 03:36 PM
hey there cobweb (jill)
glad to have met you at the sd con. thanks for all of the wonderful comments. we will definitely be bringing the art pages with us to vegas for the signing. you might see something you want there but i have to warn we did end up moving a lot of pages at the con so its sorta slim pickins. about the promethea t-shirt... it was sold by graffiti designs and has only been solicited once in diamond previews by them. i don't think they produced very many because last time i checked their website it wasn't being offered. but i do suggest maybe calling their 800 number and talk to somebody in case they have a few left sitting around somewhere. if they only have a few left would be the reason not to advertise it. too few left for it to be worth their while. anyway you might want to check into it.
----------- rise and reverberate
Eroom Nala
Member posted September 10, 2002 08:04 PM
Hiya JHW3,
not being an expert on comics and SF injokes I'm at a bit of a loss to makes sense of all the trophies on Hi 5 in Issue 11 pg 2 panel 3.
If you look at my webpage
"http://www.angelfire.com/comics/eroomnala/11.html" you'll see what I've come up with after trawling the net for Aetherean, Sandroid and Eye Spiders but I don't know what a Femtoverse is and even if my references are correct. Are the dates on each trophy significant?
Please help
Thanks
------------------ JHW3!
Member posted September 11, 2002 12:56 AM hey there eroom
you know i'm not sure of what a femtoverse is either. and i have never asked alan if there is any significance to the dates or not. wish i could be of more help. by the way i did check out your site and its very cool. lots of work going into it for sure. one suggestion...maybe adding more visuals to it might jazz things up if it doesn't bog the download too much. very cool site never the less.
------------ rise and reverberate
JDC
Member posted September 11, 2002 01:11 AM
I haven't heard of a definition for "femtoverse," but:
A femtosecond is one millionth of a nanosecond or 10-15 of a second and is a measurement sometimes used in laser technology.
From here. http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci212105,00.html
vorlon
Member posted September 11, 2002 02:44 PM
...which could but easily could not be a reference to the early days for the post-crisis universe. Back in the Byrne days of Superman, there was a pocket universe created out of a split-second of Earth's existence. The current incarnation of supergirl comes from there.